Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 17

04/25/2007 03:00 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 227 UNIFORM MONEY SERVICES ACT TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 227(L&C) Out of Committee
*+ HB 233 UNCLAIMED PHONE/ELEC COOP DISTRIBUTIONS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 233(L&C) Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                         
                         April 25, 2007                                                                                         
                           3:04 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kurt Olson, Chair                                                                                                
Representative Mark Neuman, Vice Chair                                                                                          
Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                       
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Representative Jay Ramras                                                                                                       
Representative Robert L. "Bob" Buch                                                                                             
Representative Berta Gardner                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 233                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to giving notice of unclaimed net margin                                                                       
distributions made by electric and telephone cooperatives."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 233(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 227                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the Uniform Money Services Act, to money                                                                    
transmission services, and to currency exchange services; and                                                                   
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 227(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 233                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: UNCLAIMED PHONE/ELEC COOP DISTRIBUTIONS                                                                            
SPONSOR(s): RULES                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
04/11/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/11/07       (H)       L&C                                                                                                    
04/25/07       (H)       L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 227                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: UNIFORM MONEY SERVICES ACT                                                                                         
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KERTTULA                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
03/28/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/28/07       (H)       L&C, FIN                                                                                               
04/25/07       (H)       L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
Derek Miller, Staff                                                                                                             
to Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 233 on behalf of the House                                                                    
Rules Standing Committee, sponsor by request, which is chaired                                                                  
by Representative Coghill.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT A. WILKINSON, Chief Executive Officer                                                                                    
Copper Valley Electric Association, Inc.                                                                                        
Glennallen, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 233.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JIM ROWE, Director                                                                                                              
Alaska Telephone Association (ATA)                                                                                              
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 233.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MARILYN LELAND, Executive Director                                                                                              
Alaska Power Association (APA)                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 233.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
RICH GAZAWAY, Administrative Law Judge                                                                                          
Regulatory Commission of Alaska (RCA)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  During testimony on HB 233, responded to a                                                                 
question.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JESSIE KIEHL, Staff                                                                                                             
to Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                            
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 227 on behalf of                                                                              
Representative Kerttula, sponsor.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
EZRA LEVINE, Attorney                                                                                                           
Money Services Round Table                                                                                                      
Washington, D.C.                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 227.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MARK DAVIS, Director                                                                                                            
Division of Banking and Securities                                                                                              
Department  of   Commerce,  Community,  &   Economic  Development                                                               
(DCCED)                                                                                                                         
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in favor of HB  227 and responded                                                               
to questions.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ALLEN MORE, Compliance Officer                                                                                                  
Manager                                                                                                                         
Similon (ph) Financial Services                                                                                                 
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 227.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KURT  OLSON called  the House  Labor and  Commerce Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at 3:04:31  PM.  Present at  the call                                                             
to order  were Representatives Olson, Gardner,  Neuman, Buch, and                                                               
Ramras.  Representative  LeDoux and Gatto arrived  as the meeting                                                               
was in progress.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 233-UNCLAIMED PHONE/ELEC COOP DISTRIBUTIONS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:04:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON announced  that the first order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO.  233,  "An  Act relating  to  giving  notice  of                                                               
unclaimed  net   margin  distributions   made  by   electric  and                                                               
telephone cooperatives."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:05:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DEREK MILLER,  Staff to Representative  Mike Kelly,  Alaska State                                                               
Legislature,   read   from   the  sponsor   statement   [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The  purpose   of  HB   233  addresses   the  sometimes                                                                    
     burdensome  and  ineffective noticing  requirements  of                                                                    
     unclaimed  property law  regarding  capital credits  of                                                                    
     electric  and  telephone  cooperatives.   Electric  and                                                                    
     telephone  cooperatives  from   time  to  time  receive                                                                    
     excess revenue  from members  that exceed  the expenses                                                                    
     of  operations.   The  cooperative  keeps these  excess                                                                    
     revenues  in  a  member-owned  capital  account  called                                                                    
     capital credits, on behalf of the member.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Cooperatives  may  refund   a  portion  of  accumulated                                                                    
     capital  credits, but  in  some  cases the  cooperative                                                                    
     seeking to refund  the capital credits no  longer has a                                                                    
     valid address  for the  member.  As  a result,  many go                                                                    
     unclaimed.    Current  Alaska  unclaimed  property  law                                                                    
     allows the  credits to revert  back to  the cooperative                                                                    
     as long as  the cooperative, at least  six months prior                                                                    
     to the reversion  1) mailed a notice to  the last known                                                                    
     address  of  the  member;  2)  publishes  a  notice  of                                                                    
     proposed  reversion in  the  same  manner required  for                                                                    
     publishing a service of summons  by publication; and 3)                                                                    
     publishes  a notice  of the  unclaimed capital  credits                                                                    
     four times,  during four consecutive calendar  weeks in                                                                    
     a newspaper of local circulation.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     While  mailing   to  last  known  address   of  members                                                                    
     sometimes   results  in   finding  members,   newspaper                                                                    
     publication does  not result in a  significant increase                                                                    
     in the number of members  who cash their capital credit                                                                    
     checks,  particularly for  rural  cooperatives.   As  a                                                                    
     result,   cost   of   compliance   with   this   notice                                                                    
     requirement  is significant  and  the effectiveness  is                                                                    
     questionable.   HB 233  allows cooperatives  the option                                                                    
     of   using   the   internet,   instead   of   newspaper                                                                    
     publication,  to   notify  its  members   of  unclaimed                                                                    
     capital credits.   Alaska is the most  "wired" state in                                                                    
     the country  and this bill  allows for  cooperatives to                                                                    
     notify its members using a  method most likely to reach                                                                    
     them.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILLER stated  that  the bill  is simple  in  nature and  is                                                               
supported by  the Alaska Village Electric  Cooperative, Inc., and                                                               
the Copper Valley Electric Association, Inc.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:07:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  asked  whether  the  list  of  unclaimed                                                               
credits  could  be posted  on  the  internet  site for  6  months                                                               
instead of 30 days.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER  said he  is not  aware of why  the 30-day  period was                                                               
chosen, but indicated it might be possible to "bump that up."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BUCH  asked  if  newspaper  publication  is  more                                                               
effective  in urban  cooperatives and  why this  method does  not                                                               
seem to work for rural cooperatives.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER opined that the  newspapers of general circulation are                                                               
not  reaching the  constituent base  of  the rural  cooperatives.                                                               
However,  he went  on to  say that  because Alaska  is the  "most                                                               
wired" state in the nation, the  internet may be a better vehicle                                                               
for providing notice.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:09:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT  A.  WILKINSON,  Chief Executive  Officer,  Copper  Valley                                                               
Electric  Association, Inc.,  (CVEA),  explained that  CVEA is  a                                                               
non-profit organization that  serves approximately 3,600 members.                                                               
He explained  that any monies  collected over and above  the cost                                                               
of providing electric services belong  to members and are held in                                                               
accounts  for each  member.   He relayed  that most  cooperatives                                                               
hold  the  excess  money  for  20  years,  which  makes  it  very                                                               
difficult  to locate  the  members.   He  said  that the  state's                                                               
unclaimed property  statute speaks directly to  unclaimed capital                                                               
credits, but  opined that this well-intended  statutory provision                                                               
is  burdensome  and  out-of-date.    Furthermore,  the  statutory                                                               
provisions are expensive  to comply with and  not very effective.                                                               
He said  that HB 233 would  give utilities the option  of posting                                                               
notice of  capital credits  on the  internet.   In response  to a                                                               
prior question  by Representative Gardner, he  explained that the                                                               
30-day period for  posting is likely derived  from existing legal                                                               
notice requirements.  He opined  that posting on the internet has                                                               
a  higher  likelihood  of  being   seen  and  that  CVEA  has  no                                                               
objections to posting for longer than 30 days.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKINSON  reminded the committee  that internet  posting may                                                               
be  more accessible  as it  is  "always on."   He  said that  the                                                               
CVEA's accounting  department has  already had some  success with                                                               
notifying people  on the  internet if  it does  not have  a valid                                                               
address  for  the  person.     He  said  that  CVEA,  like  other                                                               
cooperatives, uses unclaimed capital  credits to fund scholarship                                                               
programs.  In  the past 15 years, CVEA has  awarded over $100,000                                                               
in scholarships  to graduating  seniors, he  said.   He explained                                                               
that the effectiveness of newspaper  advertising is affected by a                                                               
couple  factors.   First, his  area has  a significant  temporary                                                               
population in the  summer months.  He has done  some research and                                                               
has  discovered  that only  1  in  5  current members  have  been                                                               
members for  over 20  years and  over 50  percent of  the current                                                               
members have  been members  for less  than 10  years.   He opined                                                               
that  these statistics  illustrate why  it is  difficult to  find                                                               
persons  who may  have  excess funds  in  the system,  especially                                                               
after a number of years.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Due to technical difficulties, there  is no sound recording from                                                               
3:15:26 to 3:20:51; that segment  was reconstructed from Gavel to                                                               
Gavel's recording.]                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked  if he had any  objection to posting                                                               
names on the internet for 180 days.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKINSON stated CVEA would not have any objection.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JIM ROWE, Director, Alaska  Telephone Association (ATA) explained                                                               
that  ATA has  seven rural  cooperatives as  members.   He stated                                                               
that its members are  in favor of the bill as  it will provide an                                                               
effective means  of communicating with  members.  He  opined that                                                               
urban newspapers are  not read very much in rural  areas, yet the                                                               
internet  is  very active  and  can  be  more relevant  to  local                                                               
issues.  He  stated that he supports the bill  as allowing a more                                                               
effective way to communicate with members.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked  if he had any  objection to posting                                                               
notice on the internet for 180 days.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROWE replied that he had no objection.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:19:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARILYN  LELAND, Executive  Director,  Alaska Power  Association,                                                               
(APA),  explained  that  its  members  provide  power  to  almost                                                               
500,000  Alaskans.    She  stated that  APA's  membership  is  in                                                               
support of  HB 233 as  the proposed  changes will provide  a more                                                               
effective way  of locating members  who are owed  capital credits                                                               
and will  save the  utility cooperative  thousands of  dollars in                                                               
advertising  expenses.   She opined  that the  current method  of                                                               
publishing a  long list of names  four times is not  effective as                                                               
many of the persons  no longer live in the area.   In response to                                                               
an  earlier question,  she told  members that  the Department  of                                                               
Revenue  (DOR)  has  been  successfully  using  the  internet  to                                                               
provide notices of unclaimed property.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
RICH GAZAWAY, Administrative Law  Judge, Regulatory Commission of                                                               
Alaska (RCA),  responded to  a question by  stating that  the RCA                                                               
does not take a position on this legislation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:22:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER offered Conceptual  Amendment 1 to page 2,                                                               
lines  4-6,  to lengthen  the  time  period  for posting  on  the                                                               
cooperative's Internet  web site a  list of the persons  for whom                                                               
the cooperative has  unclaimed distributions from 30  days to 180                                                               
days.   There  being  no objection,  Conceptual  Amendment 1  was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:22:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN moved to report  HB 233, as amended, out of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal  notes.   There  being  no  objection, CSHB  233(L&C)  was                                                               
reported from committee.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 227-UNIFORM MONEY SERVICES ACT                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON announced  that the final order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO. 227,  "An  Act  relating  to the  Uniform  Money                                                               
Services  Act, to  money transmission  services, and  to currency                                                               
exchange services; and providing for an effective date."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:25:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JESSIE   KIEHL  Staff   to  Senator   Kim  Elton,   Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, explained  on behalf of the  sponsor, Representative                                                               
Kerttula, that HB 227 would  implement the Uniform Money Services                                                               
Act  ("UMSA") which  was drafted  by the  National Conference  of                                                               
Commissioners on  Uniform State  Laws (NCCUSL).   House  Bill 227                                                               
proposes to  incorporate into Alaska  law two  regulatory aspects                                                               
of the UMSA:  money  transmission and currency exchange services.                                                               
Currently 47 states regulate money  transmission services in some                                                               
fashion,  and this  bill will  impose safety  standards on  these                                                               
money services  businesses, he opined.   He said that HB  227 has                                                               
no  effect  on  Alaska's  banks as  their  services  are  already                                                               
regulated.   He  relayed  that Alaskans  and  visitors have  been                                                               
duped  by unscrupulous  money transmitters  who  do not  transfer                                                               
funds  as  directed.    He  stated  that  licensure  would  place                                                               
restraints on unscrupulous individuals.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. KIEHL  said that  the bill  requires that  money transmitters                                                               
meet  certain  bonding  and net  worth  requirements  to  protect                                                               
consumers.   Furthermore,  the  federal  government is  concerned                                                               
that money  services businesses can  be used to launder  money or                                                               
to  finance   terrorist  activities.    Therefore,   the  federal                                                               
government encourages states to  license money service businesses                                                               
to ensure that law enforcement  and bank regulatory activities in                                                               
Alaska can coordinate with the  federal government to ensure that                                                               
these businesses  do not avoid  banks because they want  to avoid                                                               
scrutiny,  he  explained.   He  said  that  the bill  is  revenue                                                               
neutral  for the  state,  and would  require  that one  half-time                                                               
examiner be added  to the Division of Banking and  Security.  The                                                               
cost of that position would  be borne by regulated businesses, he                                                               
explained.   He told  members that  the bill  has the  support of                                                               
both large and small money  services businesses, consumer groups,                                                               
cruise ship lines, and the Alaska Bankers Association (ABA).                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:29:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  requested   further  specifics  regarding                                                               
incidents where  Alaskans have been victimized  by money transfer                                                               
service providers.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. KIEHL replied that although  he is not familiar with specific                                                               
incidents, he has received information  from a Juneau-based small                                                               
business representative  regarding an incident in  Juneau whereby                                                               
a person absconded with roughly  $30,000 in funds that were given                                                               
to that person for transfer to another country.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  what  rates are  charged for  money                                                               
transfers of $500 to $1,000.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KIEHL replied that the  industry is competitive and generally                                                               
"niche"  operators in  communities  will offer  lower rates  than                                                               
banks for wire transfers of small amounts.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN shared his  understanding that it is $5-$20                                                               
per $1,000.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KIEHL agreed that the  aforementioned rates are accurate.  He                                                               
noted that  the type  of providers  the bill  would cover  do not                                                               
tend to transfer larger amounts of money.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked what the regulation  proposed by the                                                               
bill will cost these businesses.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KIEHL responded  that the  division estimates  that licenses                                                               
will  cost  around  $2,000  annually.    He  said  that  currency                                                               
exchange businesses  would be licensed  biennially so  their rate                                                               
"would be half on an annualized basis."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  opined that  this may  be a  "pretty hefty                                                               
fee" for  some of these  smaller businesses, especially  for ones                                                               
that  have  a specific  niche  and  transfer  money to  only  one                                                               
country, such as Laos or Thailand.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KIEHL  replied that  he  understands  the concern  expressed                                                               
about  the fees,  however he  opined that  most of  the licensees                                                               
will  be somewhat  larger operations  and their  payment of  fees                                                               
will  help defray  costs for  smaller operations.   He  suggested                                                               
that adoption of  a uniform fee structure levels  out costs among                                                               
participants  and contributes  to  efficiency of  administration.                                                               
He noted that some states have  adopted other models of this law,                                                               
and said  that the model proposed  was chosen to keep  the fiscal                                                               
impact as low as possible.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:34:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  made  a  motion  to  adopt  the  proposed                                                               
committee  substitute  (CS)  for  HB  227,  Version  25-LSO814\C,                                                               
Bannister,  4/19/07, as  the working  document.   There being  no                                                               
objection, Version C was before the committee.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:34:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EZRA  LEVINE, Attorney,  Money  Services  Round Table,  explained                                                               
that the organization's members  include well-known money service                                                               
providers  such as  American Express,  Western  Union, and  other                                                               
large non-bank  money transmitters.   He stated  his organization                                                               
is in full support of HB 227.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX asked  whether  national  chains will  pay                                                               
only one fee, or whether they  will pay a fee for each individual                                                               
store location.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KIEHL  replied  that national  corporations  would  pay  one                                                               
license fee.   The bill  imposes bond or surety  requirements for                                                               
additional locations.  The UMSA sets  up a structure for what are                                                               
termed "authorized  delegates," and  requires the  money transfer                                                               
business to  pay the license fee  when set up in  a location that                                                               
also conducts other business.   For example, if Western Union has                                                               
a business  location in a  grocery store, Western Union  pays the                                                               
license  and  additional surety  fee,  not  the store  where  the                                                               
business is transacted.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON inquired  as to whether the 47  states that currently                                                               
regulate this area use the UMSA, or their own laws.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KIEHL  replied that currently  there are four states  - Iowa,                                                               
Texas, Washington,  and Vermont  - that  use the  UMSA.   He said                                                               
that there  are a "couple  [of] model  acts" in use,  while other                                                               
states still use "sale of checks"  laws, which he offered are not                                                               
generally  a  very  good  fit.   He  said  that  one  benefit  to                                                               
businesses in using  the UMSA is that there is  less paperwork to                                                               
complete  when a  business seeks  to  expand and  do business  in                                                               
another state that also uses the UMSA.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:38:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK  DAVIS,  Director,  Division   of  Banking  and  Securities,                                                               
Department  of   Commerce,  Community,  &   Economic  Development                                                               
(DCCED),  stated  that  the  department  supports  HB  227.    He                                                               
explained that there  are other model acts besides  the UMSA, but                                                               
opined that these other acts do  not protect the consumer as well                                                               
as  the UMSA.    He agreed  that several  states  are using  laws                                                               
related to check  cashing to regulate money transfers.   The bill                                                               
does  not include  the model  act's provisions  related to  check                                                               
cashing, a decision  he said was made by the  bill's sponsor.  He                                                               
said that  at some point,  DCCED would  likely support a  bill to                                                               
address check cashing and private  automated teller machines.  He                                                               
opined  it   would  make  sense   to  put   provisions  regarding                                                               
regulation of check  cashing in a separate  piece of legislation.                                                               
He  said  that  Alaska  does not  currently  regulate  "non-bank"                                                               
financial services  such as check  cashing, mortgages,  and money                                                               
transmitters.   He  offered his  opinion  that HB  227 will  help                                                               
consumers by  requiring that businesses  post their  rates, offer                                                               
receipts,  and  allow  for  refunds.   He  said  that  Version  C                                                               
clarifies that the  fees charged are not the fees  charged by the                                                               
businesses, but the fees charged for the licenses.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVIS characterized  the bill as "pro law  enforcement" as it                                                               
requires these businesses to register  with federal agencies that                                                               
track  money transfers.   He  said  that Version  C allows  small                                                               
businesses to  post something other  than a bond for  security as                                                               
bonds  can be  expensive for  a small  business.   He said  DCCED                                                               
supports  the  confidentiality  requirements   set  forth  in  AS                                                               
06.55.407, and  noted that  the confidentiality  provisions apply                                                               
only to the licensees.  He indicated  there may be an issue as to                                                               
whether  information given  to a  money  transmitter will  remain                                                               
confidential.  He referred to  a prior concern regarding the cost                                                               
of this legislation by explaining  that generally the Division of                                                               
Banking and  Securities operates on receipts  rather than general                                                               
funds.  He said that the  division has made a good faith estimate                                                               
as to  how many licensees would  be covered by the  provisions of                                                               
the bill,  and agreed that  if there  are not many  providers the                                                               
fees could be  higher than estimated.  He indicated  that a prior                                                               
estimate of  the number of  payday lending services  was somewhat                                                               
off.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  shared his  understanding that the  fee is                                                               
based on the division's efforts to create a neutral fiscal note.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVIS  explained that the  bill's provisions state  that fees                                                               
are  to be  based  on  actual costs,  which  is  typical for  his                                                               
division.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BUCH  asked  for   further  explanation  of  what                                                               
happens when the  state's estimates turn out to  not be accurate,                                                               
such as the situation with payday lenders mentioned earlier.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVIS  responded that the  division has added an  examiner to                                                               
review  payday  lending  businesses,  and opined  that  there  is                                                               
enough  revenue received  through licensing  to cover  the costs.                                                               
He opined that the "next time  around" the fees imposed on payday                                                               
lenders  may be  lowered as  there  are new  participants in  the                                                               
industry.    He  relayed  that licensing  bills  tend  to  change                                                               
industries  as  sometimes  business  leave or  are  "put  out  of                                                               
business" due to licensing.   When licensing was first imposed on                                                               
the payday lender business, it  resulted in 10 businesses exiting                                                               
the  industry,  30   to  40  new  businesses   joining,  and  the                                                               
collection of  $758,000 in fines  and penalties based  on illegal                                                               
loans,  he  explained.    He further  explained  that  the  first                                                               
examination of  businesses after  licensing was  imposed revealed                                                               
that some loans made were not in compliance with law.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
[Due to technical difficulties, there  is no sound recording from                                                               
3:44:07 to 3:44:21; that segment  was reconstructed from Gavel to                                                               
Gavel's recording.]                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVIS explained in response  to a question that some business                                                               
were  shown to  have engaged  in  loan practices  not allowed  by                                                               
Alaska  law,  such as  excessive  rollovers  or illegal  interest                                                               
fees.    He  said  that  the  division  will  not  re-license  an                                                               
offending business unless it makes full restitution.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BUCH  sought  assurance   that  the  fiscal  note                                                               
prepared  by  the  division anticipates  the  correct  number  of                                                               
examiners  and  investigators  to   cover  the  businesses  being                                                               
regulated.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVIS  stated that  he anticipates  that an  additional half-                                                               
time examiner position will be  adequate to review the records of                                                               
registered businesses.   He said that his  discussions with other                                                               
states indicate that the examinations  necessary can be simple if                                                               
the business is  registered, as required, under federal  law.  He                                                               
said that the number of businesses  will affect the amount of the                                                               
fees, and  stated that the  division has estimated the  number of                                                               
possible licensees.   He noted  that the money  transfer business                                                               
is currently unregulated and unlicensed;  therefore it is hard to                                                               
arrive at a good number.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  shared  her  understanding  that  if  the                                                               
division overestimates the number of  licensees in the first year                                                               
to set the  fee, the fee will  likely be higher the  next year as                                                               
it will  be divided among  the actual number of  licensees rather                                                               
than the incorrect overestimated number.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVIS agreed this is how the bill is drafted.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked  for  further  information  on  the                                                               
possible number of money transfer services.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DAVIS  reiterated  that  it  is  difficult  to  answer  this                                                               
question as these businesses are currently not regulated.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  expressed some  concern about  the smaller                                                               
businesses that operate out of small stores.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVIS  replied that it  is difficult to find  these business.                                                               
He  opined that  some of  the  money transfer  services in  small                                                               
stores  are  associated  with  larger  national  chains  such  as                                                               
Western  Union.   He  said  that Western  Union  tends  to be  in                                                               
Alaskan grocery stores, while other  businesses, like Money Gram,                                                               
are not.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH asked about the  ability to adjust fees in an                                                               
appropriate timeframe  so as to  reflect reality when  the number                                                               
of businesses becomes clearer.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVIS replied  that the division will be  required to provide                                                               
a report to  the legislature that discloses the  actual amount of                                                               
fees  charged  to  licensees  and   whether  the  licensees  have                                                               
expressed concerns  about the  amount of the  fee.   He suggested                                                               
that the  bill could  be amended  to allow that  the fees  be set                                                               
through regulation  to provide more  flexibility.  He said  it is                                                               
not the purpose of regulation  to put small Alaska businesses out                                                               
of business.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:50:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  expressed support  for the  neutral fiscal                                                               
note and opined that if  there are fewer licensees than expected,                                                               
those  businesses  will  have  more   customers,  and  thus  more                                                               
revenue, to cover their costs.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ALLEN MOORE, Compliance Officer,  Manager, Similon (ph) Financial                                                               
Services stated his support for HB  227.  He described Similon as                                                               
a "mom and  pop" organization that has been in  business for nine                                                               
years.     It  belongs  to   the  National   Money  Transmitters'                                                               
Association,  has  a  network  in Indonesia,  and  works  with  a                                                               
company that has  a network in the Philippines.   He told members                                                               
that   Similon,  like   many   other   money  transfer   business                                                               
nationwide, lost  its bank account  in September.  He  said banks                                                               
have been terminating their  relationships with money transferors                                                               
based on  advice of  bank auditors that  money transferors  are a                                                               
risky  business.    He  said that  Similon  has  secured  another                                                               
account in Alaska at a cost of "many thousands" of dollars.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MOORE  suggested that licensing and  regulation would provide                                                               
the respect and standing that  money transfer businesses deserve.                                                               
Furthermore,  licensing   and  regulation  would   contribute  to                                                               
industry  safety and  soundness.   He opined  that the  licensing                                                               
fees would cost "a couple  thousand dollars," but that many money                                                               
transfer businesses are agents for  larger companies.  The parent                                                               
company would  pay for  the license, not  the in-state  agent, he                                                               
said.   He  reminded the  committee  that the  parent company  is                                                               
required to monitor  its business, train its  employees, and keep                                                               
necessary records.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:54:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN moved  to report  the proposed  CS for  HB
227, Version 25-LSO814\C, Bannister,  4/19/2007, out of committee                                                               
with  individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  fiscal                                                               
notes.   There  being no  objection, CSHB  227(L&C) was  reported                                                               
from the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Labor and  Commerce Standing Committee  meeting was  adjourned at                                                               
3:55 p.m.                                                                                                                       

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